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Still listing the wrong SSD drive in older SATA II (3.0 Gb/s) systems.

I thought we pulled the Crucial SSD’s out of these kits for these older series: https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Mac/iMac-In...

You need to use a drive which can run at SATA II (3.0 Gb/s) which the newer Crucial SSD’s can’t do as they are fixed SATA III (6.0 Gb/s). The spec sheet needs to list SATA II support for it to work properly. As an example Samsung 860 EVO Note the Interface line: SATA 6 Gbps Interface, compatible with SATA 3 Gbps & 1.5 Gbps interfaces

If the spec sheet doesn’t state it clearly like Samsung drive does it should only be used in the SATA spec the drive calls out.

Technically none of Crucial SSD’s will work reliably in a SATA II system.

SATA II is not listed in any of the Crucial’s spec sheets or flyers. These SSD’s are all fixed speed SATA III (6.0 Gb/s) only!

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Hi Dan,

Thanks for letting us know! I'll pass this along.

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@kristen - I would still offer the kit alone or look at getting a different makers drive that is auto sense. There are a few cheaper ones besides Samsung!

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Hi Dan, what sort of performance or reliability issues would these Crucial SSDs in older computer cause? We looked into this a year ago but it fell off our radar. We have had no negative feedback from customers since then and the product is still highly reviewed.

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@scotth The problem is they aren't listed to be SATA II compatible, so it can cause a reliability issue. Sure it may work unofficially but that doesn't mean it's going to be reliable - it could be there in firmware but not rated due to an issue not worth chasing down for example.

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Sure, I get that, but we haven't heard of any reliability issues. I agree it's not good to market something as compatible when the manufacturer says it's not. I'm just trying to understand what the issue is more specifically since we haven't had any issues.

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@scotth - This issue is within the data flow. The SATA II interface within the system (Host) can only accept the data so fast from the drive (Slave), A slow platter drive which offers a SATA III interface will rarely push the data flow to the upper limits of 6.0 Gb/s and the buffers have a chance to finish before the next stream of data would come.

With SSD's there is no break in the stream like a fragmented HDD would have. Thus, the SATA interface buffers overflow and the data blocks CRC fails so then that data block then needs to be retransmitted.

While on the surface this doesn't look like such a big deal having a few blocks needing to be resent. The truth is often times in 1000 of blocks! And then some of these blocks then need to be re-sent a third, forth and onward which can take a bit of time. If the person causes the system to exit out of the transaction the file/s then become corrupt.

In addition, the system is working harder than it needs to so both the system and drives thermals go up and the in the case of a laptop the systems battery runs down sooner.

The way the standard was written years ago (BTW: I was at that standards meeting here in Boston) the expectation was the more costly drives would be transplanted into the new system as the systems where cheaper! Who knew the storage sizes of drives would grow from 5 GB, 10 GB then onto 500 GB, 1TB, 2TB and now the massive 16 TB! And the price per GB of HDD’s would drop! from around $5 a GB or so in the 80’s, to around 5 cents a GB today! Even SSD’s are getting cheaper year to year.

So the standard was written to make sure older SATA I (1.5Gb/s) HDD’s would work in newer spec’ed systems SATA II (3.0 Gb/s) and later either of these drives would work in a SATA III (6.0 Gb/s) system (drives are upwardly transferable). The standard didn’t address newer spec’ed drives being used in older SATA 2.0 spec’d systems! As that was not expected. There was an addendum which was never ratified for the 2.0 standard which spelled things out. It later was put in the 3.0 standard, it is in section 13.2.1.16 - Word 76. Thats why there is a problem! As the older host interface chips didn’t know how to interface correctly to the newer drives. Here’s a bit more on the signaling aspect Design of an Open-Source SATA Core and here’s the SATA standard for reference Serial ATA Revision 3.0

So when people with older SATA II systems started installing newer SATA III drives they often thought the drive was working correctly as the data flow was not exceeding the 3.0 Gb/s ability of the system, to handle. To add to this the quality of the SATA cable also needs to be considered! The older SATA I & II cables where not shielded! Unlike the SATA III cables so you often encountered cross-talk across the pair sets. This in turn often created both a FEXT and NEXT problems as the standard allows for bi-directional communication concurrently.

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3 Comments:

I never had an issue reusing likely SATA II cables on SATA III drives/systems, personally. There have been times I've gotten No HD hardware where I have gotten nothing and need to supply everything down to the cable, and most of my used ones are SATA I/II.

I know SATA III cables are relatively cheap when I'm spending $50-60 on a hard drive if I'm not sure, but when it's been fine I would rather use something on hand unless I have reason to be worried - like an SSD.

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Ok thanks for all the detailed info guys. We'll get the products changed

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@scotth I would also add that the SSD that put me off was released 7 years ago so it was one of those infant SSDs where they were cheap for small ones/expensive for high capacity.

Things are totally different now and they've matured a lot, but we also lost the legacy support on a lot of drives :-(. It hasn't hit me yet since I usually buy newer gear like Sandy/Ivy/Haswell used but it hurts the people who buy from the Core 2 bargain bin.

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Dan will be eternally grateful.